It’s easy to set boundaries when it involves a stranger online; but when it’s with someone you know, and even love, in real life, that’s when it gets hard.

It's time to tackle one of most highly requested topics for the podcast, and that is boundaries. Today I am joined by a therapist, Dr. Julie Hanks, who answers our most pressing questions on the issue. This includes my biggest one, "Do I have to tell other people that I have boundaries around them?" She answers that as well as some others that may surprise you.

In addition to our frank discussion on boundaries, her insight on introspection and our thoughts is worth your time spent listening. Tune in for the permission you need to move forward with identifying your boundaries, then sticking to them, and why it's crucial to your overall well-being.

More from Dr. Julie Hanks here.

About a few other things...

Reclaim your creative power and rediscover who you actually are! If you’re ready to come back home to yourself, to be able to say that you know who you are and what matters to you, take my foundation course, “Finding Me.” It’s OK that you’ve lost parts of yourself along the way; but as you learn to anchor back into who you are and align your life to what matters to you, you’ll find that you have more strength, more fulfillment, and more creativity to bring to your important roles and responsibilities.

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TRANSCRIPT

Monica Packer: Dr. Julie Hanks, it's great to have you back on About Progress.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Thanks for the invitation Monica.

Monica Packer: This is a topic that has been so requested, like in ways that I could not put it off anymore. We needed to talk about boundaries. And you are the person I've learned the most from about boundaries and how to do healthy ways. I mean, I read a great book on it a couple of years ago by Dr. Henry cloud.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Yeah. Bound is called boundaries.

Monica Packer: Yes, it's called boundaries, but I feel like it's a little bit trickier as a woman. And as women, we tend to be more tied to care-taking roles. And by that people, which is often the people that we need to set the boundaries with, it's the people that are closest with us, and those are the hardest, hardest boundaries to tackle.

But let's start with just, this may seem so simple, but how would you define boundaries?

Dr. Julie Hanks: I really like what Brene brown has said about boundaries. It's what's okay. And what's not okay. It's like, what's okay with me. What's not okay with me. And that's, that's the definition of a boundary.

Monica Packer: So it's not you getting on a megaphone and on the podium and shouting at everybody. It's it's just an, it can be internal.

Dr. Julie Hanks: it's just this what's okay and what's not what, what I will tolerate, what I won't tolerate, what I will look for, what I won't look for, what I will say and not say what other people can say to me and what they can't say.

Monica Packer: Okay. And so a big part of setting boundaries is knowing that

Dr. Julie Hanks: Right. Which yes. And, and that is something that I learned in my work with women over the last few decades. And I go into that in my book, the Assertiveness Guide for Women, but you have to know your patterns and your vulnerabilities in order to even know yourself enough, to know what boundaries you need to set and where you need to be assertive.

So we generally are not taught or socialized to think about and identify our own boundaries and women and girls are not usually praised for being independent or strong or that's usually a masculine thing. And so, you know, we're at a disadvantage because of that, because many of us haven't really even asked ourself the question, what do I want?

Monica Packer: Um, Yes, and we've been, you know, like you said, we've been, we've been socially taught and maybe explicitly taught, be nice. Let it go. Don't worry about it to, just to accommodate. And so you saying what's okay, what's not, I mean, that, to me triggered right away women saying, I don't know. I don't know what's okay.

Dr. Julie Hanks: if I had a quarter for every time I heard that in my therapy office or like, I haven't, I don't know. I haven't even asked myself that. I'm like, well, if you're not asking it, who is? Who's going to know that only you can know that for you.

Monica Packer: Why do you think women are afraid to know that?

Dr. Julie Hanks: I don't think we're taught how I think we have a fear of being selfish.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Dr. Julie Hanks: that's like the worst thing a woman can be as selfish and I'm like, Hmm, isn't it really the worst thing? I don't know. So I think there are just lots of, uh, social things that kind of keep us from asking those things,

Monica Packer: Hmm.

Dr. Julie Hanks: beliefs about who we are and what our jobs are and, and what we're responsible for.

And frankly, so many women are so overwhelmed with the day to day life that there's not a lot of room or they haven't created the boundaries to ponder those questions

Monica Packer: So even with that, I'm thinking even, even myself, I can see that how I'm afraid of the fallout. And I'm also just so darn tired. Like I don't want to have to deal with it. Yeah,

Dr. Julie Hanks: and people don't like it all the time.

Monica Packer: no. Yeah.

Dr. Julie Hanks: People don't like boundaries.

Monica Packer: It's going to be exhausting to, to work with. So then why should like what's in it for them? Why should they want to have boundaries in their life? If it is maybe. Exhausting or it's going to take effort or it's going to make some people unhappy. Why are boundaries good?

Dr. Julie Hanks: Well, everyone has bound. So you don't really have to think about it. I mean, we all have things that are okay and that's not okay. And sometimes those aren't healthy, but we all have boundaries already, but the reason we want healthy boundaries is so we can be emotionally, mentally, spiritually, intellectually, and socially healthy. So we can thrive in our own lives and not be bogged down with resentment, anger. Resentment is the biggest clue, at least for me personally, and for a lot of women I've worked with, if you are resenting something, you need to set a different boundary.

Monica Packer: So for women who are like, I'm ready to have a healthier life, I'm ready to have healthier relationships. I'm ready to feel better in my day-to-day life. I'm ready to have more energy because my, my boundaries are, are not healthy. What can they pay attention to so that they can recognize. This is where I need to work on having a healthier boundary. You said resentment? I'm sure there's more.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Resentment. Oh, there, there are lots of things. There are clues in your body. So stress, where do you hold stress? I hold it in my shoulders. So if my shoulders are really tight, like, okay, I need to set boundaries and I need to focus on self. That's my clue. So everyone has physical signs. It might be headaches. It might be neck aches. It might be stomach aches. It might be a tmj. Yeah. Whatever grinding your teeth.

Monica Packer: mine.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Um, yeah. And so paying attention to physical physical cues is a big part of it, but also emotional.

Monica Packer: Hm.

Dr. Julie Hanks: If you are not excited about your life, if there's nothing to look forward to. If your needs are less of a priority than everyone else's needs, that's a clue

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Dr. Julie Hanks: because your needs and wants matter just as much as anyone else's. And so if you notice, you know, cognitively that you, oh, I am putting myself below in terms of priority,

Monica Packer: Okay.

Dr. Julie Hanks: then that's another clue. So there are mental clues, emotional clues, physical clues, and that's partly how I decide whether I want to say no or not. It's like, oh, do I have a, "uh," like a resistance in me? When I'm asked to do something or do I think, oh, I'm going to regret this, or I'm going to resent this in the long run then that's good information. That's it's time to say no. It's time to set a boundary.

Monica Packer: To go along with all those emotional ones. I thinking of women who feel really overwhelmed. If that's your general state of being, that's probably a good sign that

Dr. Julie Hanks: that's a great sign. Overwhelmed, stressed.

Monica Packer: anxiety.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Anxiety can be just part of stress and overwhelmed for sure.

Monica Packer: And saying yes. If you say yes, like 10 times out of 10, that could be a sign too.

 I'm realizing there's certain times in certain settings where I find myself silencing myself and just showing up as a, as a little mouse, like, just be quiet. I feel like there are certain relationships that that really shows up in ways that surprise me. And I do not like, and actually that kind of segues to this, to the next part I wanted to discuss with you.

Setting boundaries within relationships that really matter. How do we set those boundaries when it's especially hard to do? Why is that the time? Why is that the relationship? Why is that the boundary that we must set, when it's the hardest to do?

Dr. Julie Hanks: Um, so usually those are the relationships that are, that we're most dependent on. And so it's scary to rock the boat.

Monica Packer: Mm.

Dr. Julie Hanks: If they're pulling away from us or rejecting us, it feels threatening because it is threatening. Like we actually need those key relationships and. We literally need relationships to physically survive.

And so there's kind of this survival part of us. That's like, oh, I don't, you know, I don't want to threaten this core attachment that I have. That's really important to me.

Monica Packer: Hmm.

Dr. Julie Hanks: And boundaries often feel like they're going to threaten that, but the opposite over time is true. Not setting boundaries is what threatens relationships, because then you can't have intimacy. You can't be known.

Monica Packer: Yeah. I was actually speaking to a friend about that just this weekend, we were just discussing how overwhelmed she is with her life and how within her marriage, she feels like she has to carry the load of everyone and everything to protect her spouse

Dr. Julie Hanks: Hmm.

Monica Packer: from the stress and from the anxiety. And I see what you just described perfectly in her situation, that in her attempt to keep the negative feelings away from her spouse, from her relationship. That's only exacerbating those feelings over time and it's law. It's making it so that they can't be close. Intimacy!

Dr. Julie Hanks: Right. It, you, you, you risk even though boundaries feel like that's the risk, not setting boundaries is actually the risks or not showing up with your voice and, and your authenticity. You can't have a relationship with someone who won't show you what's important to them or who they are.

Monica Packer: And so I feel like we can make that direct tie, healthy boundaries create healthier relationships because intimacy, anything else I'm missing there?

Dr. Julie Hanks: No, I think that's, I mean, I think that's the bottom, the bottom line you can be known

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Dr. Julie Hanks: and that's what we all want,

Monica Packer: K.

Dr. Julie Hanks: but, but sometimes we hide to preserve in an attempt to preserve the relationship. But the irony is that kills the relationship. The hiding is what kills it.

Monica Packer: Oh, I hope women who are listening can just pay attention to that gut feeling. You know, I've seen like, oh, I can see that now I can see how this is hurting my relationships, whether it's with a spouse or a sibling or a child, or a friend or a neighbor, this is hurting their relationships. So for women who are ready to have the courage to set healthy boundaries, to improve their relationships, what does that even look like?

Dr. Julie Hanks: Um, so it depends on cluing into four things.

Monica Packer: Okay.

Dr. Julie Hanks: What do I think? What do I feel? What do I want? What do I need? And all of those things matter. So being able to identify in, in a given situation or relationship, okay, what am I, what do I think about this relationship? Well, how do I feel about it?

What do I want from this relationship and what do I need from this relationship or from anything from my life or from just being able to answer those questions regularly and frequently will give you that information of what boundaries you need to set or, and, and within boundaries, I'm also talking about making requests of other people, not just saying what's not okay.

It's what I want. What is, okay, please do this. Or please. I know in my, um, in my marriage, I've through the years, said, what I need to hear right now is blank. In a way that's a boundary that's what's okay. That's what I want. That's you know, it's like, this is, this is what I want from you right now.

Monica Packer: I never thought of that, but it makes so much sense to me then setting boundaries as is making requests.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Right. What I

Monica Packer: alone.

Dr. Julie Hanks: what do I think, feel, want, and need? And the want, I think is the, the really tricky one.

Monica Packer: Um,

Dr. Julie Hanks: That a lot of women I've worked with have not asked themselves. It's like it's off limits because that's selfish because it can't be about me because good moms sacrifice everything for their children or good partners, sacrifice everything for their spouses.

You know, just kind of those, those beliefs that, that we've been taught, but what you want. Really matters and it matters because that's part of what makes you, you, and that's part of what makes, you knowable to the people around you.

Monica Packer: It seems like in order to set those healthy boundaries, they need to do a lot of deep work then.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Self-reflection. It's not like you have to do all this work before you start setting boundaries. Right. We're already kind of telling people indirectly how what's okay. And what's not okay. Um, but yeah, it does require consistent self reflection and self development.

Monica Packer: And can that happen more intuitively over time? Or is it something that women need to get like a formed ritual or routine about it? Like how does that, I mean, I'm just going to ask you, how does that work for you? That regular self-reflection.

Dr. Julie Hanks: I think, um, I've developed the skill of doing that. I think I, I have a self reflective part of me that is interested in the intangible parts of my life.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Dr. Julie Hanks: So it's kind of being curious about, huh? I wonder why I reacted that way. Huh? What? Gosh, this feels really important. Just kind of being curious about your internal world.

And so often the external world is so loud and overwhelming we don't take the time to ponder, to meditate, to get to know ourselves. So how that worked with me? I had a therapist who it, when I was in my late teens, give me a homework assignment. I want you to do two things this week by yourself that you've never done before by yourself. And just get to know yourself on like, you would get to know someone. So I went skiing by myself and I went out to dinner by myself and I had never done that. Like gone to a nice dinner by myself and notice what feelings come up, what thoughts, what worries, what anxieties, what? And, and so that, that's just a concrete example of something you can do is spend time alone, like carve that out.

Monica Packer: I love that example because it is so practical. It's a thing you can say, all right, I can go on a walk by myself or I can go to a movie by myself or something like that. It also is really enlightening to me because it's so clear. That's time set aside from the responsibilities, from the noise to have that perspective.

Dr. Julie Hanks: So you are just as important as the people you love. And you matter just as much. And so if they get time to themselves or they need a timeout or they need recreational hobbies, or they need to continue learning, or it's like you get that same permission,

Monica Packer: Yep. That alone is what changed my life. We would call it the Doucette being less than our community that just having that time away from responsibilities to, to uncover and discover myself as what has led to every, all the work I do. So cheering that one on.

 So let's say women have done this. They've either taken the time and they've gotten the information.

Or they've been working on developing that skill of self-reflection and curiosity, and they know better now. Okay. This is what I think, feel, want, and need. What is next? This is probably the hardest part

Dr. Julie Hanks: Yeah.

Monica Packer: self-reflection.

Dr. Julie Hanks: So it's actually stating what your boundaries are.

Monica Packer: Hm.

Dr. Julie Hanks: What's okay. What's not okay. So, you can set boundaries with toddlers. I'm not okay with you screaming at me. You can say, mommy, I'm really mad at you. I want to go play, but you may not scream at.

Monica Packer: Yes. Yeah.

Dr. Julie Hanks: I mean, it's saying what's okay. What's not okay with partners. I'm not okay with you having a night off to play basketball and I don't have a night off, so we need to change this. So we both have a night off every week. How are we going to do this? So I'm not okay with this. It's not fair. And this is what I want. I want a night off where you're in charge of the family responsibilities and I'm not. Or I'm not okay having sex when I don't want to have sex anymore or whatever it is.

With a friend, you know, I'm not okay. Um, having our, the bulk of our conversations be about you. Like, I want some, I want more time in our conversation. And I'm going to start inserting myself more or, I mean, just, there are just an infinite number of things. Yeah. That it just depends on what you think feel, want and need. And then like, how do you frame that? And a really helpful kind of a sentence stem that I use a lot is, "I feel _______blank. So you're feeling________."

Their specific behavior "because I think _____." And then the request, "it would mean a lot to me if blank."

Monica Packer: That's fantastic.

Dr. Julie Hanks: So I feel hurt when you come home and immediately turn on sports because I think I'm not important to. It would mean a lot to me. If you would come home and take five minutes and talk to me about my day,

Monica Packer: I love that.

Dr. Julie Hanks: it's so clear. Like it's just, it's so easy and so clear.

Monica Packer: I think that also takes away one of the big hurdles is feeling like I'm going to make this person hate me because they're going to feel attacked or that I'm saying you're a terrible person

Dr. Julie Hanks: And sometimes we do attack and, and that's, and that's why we get that. And some people have a hard time with boundaries and they tend to go to shame

Monica Packer: Um,

Dr. Julie Hanks: when they get feedback. So that happens.

Monica Packer: That does. Yeah,

Dr. Julie Hanks: Boundaries feel like you're saying that they're bad somehow.

Monica Packer: But I love that framework because it's not setting it up as I'm going to shame you or blame you, but it is factual still.

Dr. Julie Hanks: So that same message could be said, you always come home and just turn on a TV. I'm not important to you. You don't care about me. That is going to be met with defensiveness.

Monica Packer: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And understandably so.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Right, right. Because it's, it's an attack. But if, if we can own what we think, feel, want, and need that own it. Like this is our responsibility to express this and to say what's okay. And what's not okay. It's not someone else's job. It's our job and own it.

Monica Packer: Hmm. That's the, that's the last step I think is the owning it part. Right. So I have two questions about the, you know, what happens after the stating it, or even part of the state and the, that that's one of them. What about the owning it part? What does that look like when someone does not respect it. They don't respect the boundary that you've set, whether it's a request or a limit or a no.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Yeah, let's get concrete, do you have an example that you could use . . .

Monica Packer: Well, let's, let's use the example you, you shared where it's the, the wife asking the husband to spend a little time talking to her when he gets home or when they both get home, instead of going right to sports and maybe he listens and he's like, okay. Or maybe they get combative. They have an argument, but whatever the boundary was set, but no matter what, how that conversation goes, They just keep doing it.

Dr. Julie Hanks: So you have bigger problems in your marriage. So if you make a totally reasonable, doable request of five minutes of connection and your partner does not respond to you, then you have a big problem.

Monica Packer: And that's when you need to call

Dr. Julie Hanks: Therapists.

Monica Packer: a therapist.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Yeah. Couples, couples counseling. I mean, that's a such a small request and it's so doable and we have DVR'd, it's like we have the technology to make this happen. But if they have so little regard for your requests, there are bigger problems.

Okay. And that's when you need to get help.

Yes. So if they just forget, if they come in and they just by habit, turn it on. That's different than like I'm, I'm not going to do what you want. I'm not going to connect with you. So say, say partner comes home phase a male say turns on sports and you, you go like, I need my five minutes.

Monica Packer: Yeah.

Dr. Julie Hanks: you can do something playful or cute, and if you have someone who's invested in the relationship, they will respond to a little, like a little nudge, like, come on, remember, like, this is really important to me own it. This is important to me. It's not you, you're a bad person or you're a horrible partner. It's this is important to me.

The way

Monica Packer: you communicate it I think alone is a big difference in how I imagined boundaries being set and why shied away from them in the past, because I thought I only had to be, do done with a loud voice and firm words and, um, just re rigidity, I guess. And, and what you're showing to me is love. Like it's,

Dr. Julie Hanks: Boundaries are loving. They're letting people in.

Monica Packer: Giving them the opportunity

Dr. Julie Hanks: Yeah to know you and to connect with you.

Monica Packer: Okay. This is what I love about the owning part. It's going to be so different, but no matter what owning can still be done in loving ways, whether it's a reminder, a, Hey, remember this, and you know, let's try it this week. Let's see how it feels or owning it is also maybe saying this is what's going to happen. If we're not prioritizing it's another direction, right.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Right. So, so what's the behavior or what's the consequence of someone not respecting your boundaries? So what are you willing to do or not? If they don't. So, um, let's think of a boundary that's, uh, like, um, let's see. Okay. So let's use the example of, um, a partner wants a night off one partner gets time for recreation the other doesn't And, and you say you asked for what you want. Like, I would like a night off and. They're like, well, no, I, you know, I work all day and blah, blah, blah. And that's not my job.

It's yours or whatever their story is. So then what do you do, right? What are you willing to do? So if it's your job to get your needs met, you can say, okay, that's really hurtful. I feel under supported when you won't support me in the thing that I'm supporting you in, it feels unfair. And I think I'm not important to you. I need this. I'm going to make it happen without you by hiring a babysitter. And I'm not sure what the impact on our marriage is going to be, because this is really painful.

Monica Packer: Hmm,

that's a great example. Especially, cause it's still, it's still not a,you're a terrible person, but it's still stating the facts and the truth, you know,

Dr. Julie Hanks: like, this is my truth. Like, this painful. I'm asking for three hours

Monica Packer: okay.

Dr. Julie Hanks: and you know, and the fact that you won't. You know, or, I mean, so say they're like, I I'm dealing with the husband or partner's dealing with depression and they don't have give, or then you work it out, you work it out together.

Well, how can we work it out so I can have a night off? What do you know? And then you brainstorm it together.

Yeah. I love that element to me is probably the most important one. It's it's communicating, it's, it's giving, making it a real partnership so together you can figure out how to make your relationship stronger, because I'm sure there are things that they need too, that we could do a better job of helping them.

So what women will often do is go, okay, well, I don't need that. And then resent their partner, resent their kids be irritable.

Monica Packer: They withdraw the need is what you're saying. Like, oh, I

Dr. Julie Hanks: they, they pretend that they don't want it or need it. And then they resent everybody around them and they're not happy loving people.

Monica Packer: Yep. I think we all know what that feels

Dr. Julie Hanks: like

Right. I mean, we've all done it like fine.

Okay, great. Everybody gets what they want. Then we become a martyr. Everybody gets what they want, except for me. Okay. I guess that's just my life.

Monica Packer: Yeah. Martyrdom makes everyone miserable. That's something I always remind myself. So, so having the courage to still speak up to own the wants and needs, I mean, it does take courage, but it still feels better and it does better things for our relationships in the long run, than being miserable and making everyone else miserable because of martyrdom.

 I feel like this is a long process. It's not going to happen in one day for any relationship,

Even a friendship.

Dr. Julie Hanks: One thing we haven't talked about about boundaries is that they protect you too, and they protect your physical self, or you can protect other people's physical selves. But for me, what I have to fiercely protect is my emotional energy and my creativity.

I choose to say no to a lot of things. I choose to have a lot of downtime so I can be good at what I want to be.

Monica Packer: That makes so much sense to me. And I feel like there's women who are listening to you saying that, and they feel resentful of you. And you're like, that's the sign? That's the sign. If you're resentful that

Dr. Julie Hanks: you reset,

Monica Packer: no to things.

Dr. Julie Hanks: then that's a clue for you.

Monica Packer: Yes.

Dr. Julie Hanks: And, and this has taken me a lot of practice. I mean, I've been, I've been working on my self-development. For the better part of four decades.

Monica Packer: Yeah,

Dr. Julie Hanks: And there are skills that require practice and I've gotten better over time. And these are just skills that we're talking about that take practice, and you're going to mess it up.

You're going to say the wrong thing, and then you're going to have to repair it and say, you know I really came at you in. Uh, an aggressive way. I'm really sorry. What I mean to say is this, and, and repair it, have a do over. We call it a do over at our house or rewind, rewind, but it's not what I wanted to say.

Let me say it again.

Monica Packer: Yeah, and I love that permission. It's okay. You don't get it right the first time or the first dozen times. It's it's going to take practice. I have one more question with you about boundaries in general, do we always have to state the boundaries aloud, like aren't there some relationships that we just can have an internal boundaries?

Dr. Julie Hanks: Give me an example of what you're thinking.

Monica Packer: I'm thinking about, if we know the boundaries will not be respected, but we still need to be in relationship with these people in some way or another. So maybe it's a topic of conversation, is a boundary that you have, like, I'm not going to talk about that with them. It's not safe and they

Dr. Julie Hanks: going to walk away when they bring this up. Yeah. So yes. Boundaries can be just you inside knowing what's okay. And what's not okay. And knowing what you're going to do about it if that boundary is crossed.

Monica Packer: Hmm. That to me, gives me a lot of comfort because a big part of why I think women don't set boundaries is because they know with certain people, they won't be respected and it's not safe to even set the boundaries. But like we said, they still need to be in relationship, but there's still ways to support yourself.

Maybe spending less time around them, maybe leaving the room when a topic comes up, maybe switching the topic in general.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Or saying, I will spend one hour a month with this person and that's it. So it can be a time boundary. It could be an energy boundary. It could be a conversation boundary. And you, you need to know that you don't have to actually state it. You can, you can say, you know what, when you bring up whatever the, you know, politics, I'm going to excuse myself, because I don't think it's productive and I'm uncomfortable or whatever you want to say or just, I'm not going to participate in

Monica Packer: that internal boundary of, of just getting up and leaving, going to the bathroom.

Dr. Julie Hanks: I, I have some boundaries, with certain family members when, when they talk about certain topics where I will not engage I'll I'll listen, I'll listen. But I I'm like, you know, if somebody wants to know what I think they can ask me directly, but I am not engaging in because the other person wants to be right more than they want to understand. And I, I'm not interested in those kinds of conversations. I'm interested in mutual understanding.

Monica Packer: Yeah. Okay, thanks for sharing that example. And for also giving us permission to have those other types of boundaries that might be more internal, but just as important and how we can support ourselves through them. This was fantastic. I'm so glad that you took the time to be on to share about your own expertise and what you, what you've worked on yourself, but also what you've helped so many women work on. I was wondering before we leave. If there's one small thing a woman can do, because listen to this whole conversation, just one small thing they can do to get started. What would that be?

Dr. Julie Hanks: Reclaim your no.

Monica Packer: What does that mean? I mean, I think I know what it means, but

Dr. Julie Hanks: It means, give yourself permission to say no

Monica Packer: Hm.

Dr. Julie Hanks: and start saying it. It's one of the very first words that children learn,

right? It's it's among what? The top 10 words they learned.

Monica Packer: Never thought of that, but yes, might be the first word for some kids,

Dr. Julie Hanks: no says I am me. You are you. And I am different than you. So it's a way of. Distinguishing a self. So if you've let go of your know, you've let go of part of that. This is, this is me and that's you, there's probably a lot of, unclear emotional boundaries too, with that. So reclaim your know, give yourself permission to say no.

And even if you feel guilty, feel the guilt and get curious about that.

Monica Packer: Oh, yes.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Don't let guilt stop you from saying no

And one more thing, ask yourself, what do I want in my life? Because who else is going to know the answer to that? And it's no one else's job to get you that, or to make those things happen. It's your job. Other people can support you and help you. But what do you want to create out of your life?

That is your stewardship. That's your responsibility. It's not your kids. It's not your partner. It's not your parents. It's not your friends. So own it.

Monica Packer: Hm.

Dr. Julie Hanks: This is your life.

Monica Packer: That is one of my biggest missions is to help women get off from the sidelines of their own lives. And that to me was just the most powerful push that we all needed. So thank you. Thank you for living this out, and thank you for teaching it and helping make it possible for to do the same. And I want to drag people to your amazing podcast, ask Dr. Julie Hanks. It's a great podcast. I love that we get to hear from real women who are struggling with real things, and it's also like the perfect amount of time too, so

Dr. Julie Hanks: I didn't want to overwhelm I'm like 20 minutes is perfect because you. You know, while you're doing carpool or while you're, you know, folding laundry or, or on your break at work, you can just pop it in, listen to it, you know, and just, just, uh, enjoy. So my goal with the podcast is that even if you can't relate to the specific situation, you can take something away that will make your life better.

Monica Packer: Well, I know I do every single time, even if I don't have the exact same experience with someone else, I always learn something. Um, I also want to direct them to anything else that you would like to, whether it's your membership or your book, where, where should

Dr. Julie Hanks: Yeah.

Monica Packer: one other place to start.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Yeah. So the assertiveness guide for women just Google it and it's on Amazon. Um, that's a book that I wrote with a lot of these concepts about boundaries and also some tools for that self development that we talked about. And then my website is Dr. Julie hanks.com, and I have a monthly membership where people can work with me.

It's really affordable. You get a good community of women who are working on the same skills and needing the same tools. And then at @DrjulieHanks on social media.

Monica Packer: Fantastic. Well, Dr. Hanks, this has been a joy to see you and to be able to talk about these things. Thank you very much.

Dr. Julie Hanks: Oh, Monica. It's always a pleasure. Please have me back whenever you want. I, I love being on your podcast

Monica Packer: Thank you now, I'm going to like, totally keep you to that. Oh, I feel like I already do.